To All My Friends
Thanks for reading :)
I've spoken harshly and frequently, and just wanted to be clear about a couple things. I wanted to speak especially to my friends who happen to be religious. I'm not going to engage in name-calling or angry writing here, as that's not what this is about. Far from, I hope.
I'm not going to attempt justify or for that matter apologize for some of the things I've written or said. I have been insensitive at times, probably frequently. It's a measure of (among other things) how strongly I feel about the issue, but it gives me no joy at all to know that I've upset people I do care deeply about in the process.
So my frustration has been evident, and it seemed helpful to try to explain at a personal level why this is the case. My first point is this: I have given a great deal of thought to the subject of religion in general (including varying depths of attention to most of the bigger religions across the world and Christianity in particular), and after much contemplation, none of them really "fit" with my feelings and observations about the world. I've tried, and it just isn't so. In particular, this applies to the primary three monotheistic religions, but I also can't see, for example, the pantheon of the ancient Greeks or the dazzling diversity of deities of Hinduism as anything more than metaphor of varying degrees of entertainment and usefulness. There's just no "there" there in this case, and my personal sense of ethics won't allow me to fake it.
I've tried, and I've tried really hard, and none of it fits. I just lack any desire to place the core of my understanding of the world in the context of a deity (or group thereof) who, for lack of a more accurate description, works magic. I know a great many people who feel exactly the same way.
So that's the first thing, in a nutshell. After that comes a certain feeling of being "not in the club" with regard to religion. This hasn't happened recently, but I've been struck by how many times in the past five years or so that somebody has asked me "What church do you go to?" For those of you close to my income level, that would be similar in a way to being asked "What country club to you belong to?" Oof. Hopefully, that kind of puts it in perspective.
It's a thoughtless insensitivity, no malice whatsoever behind it and I hold no particular person any ill will for asking - the meaning behind it was always (I hope) a friendly gesture just like "Do you like to go fishing?" would be - and the answer is an emphatic yes in this particular case, just for the record. When there's time...
Even so, the assumption rankles every time it becomes evident. Imagine how that kind of thing gets compounded when I observe people sincerely attempting to demand upon me by force of law various behaviors that are being altered for no other reason than their religious belief system - a system which I am not part of and not because I have a competing religious view per se, but that I have nothing but skepticism for the core dogmas of that particular religion or for that matter any of the alternatives.
In other words, it would be like me trying to make my daughter get up in the morning for school but rather than just saying " get up because you need an education to be happier later on" I might tell her, for example, "because if you don't get up within 2 minutes, a giant claw machine is going to reach inside the house and snatch your daddy away forever," and then make the going to school an afterthought completely forgotten about as a result of the trauma earlier in the morning and perhaps not even attended to.
And that's the next thing about religion: it's not that there aren't things about religion that are meritorious, but the thing that is of value, true value that I see in every religious faith I've looked at, gets lost behind the noise of the narrative, of the dogma, and the implicit punishment (related to the afterlife usually) that religions tend to keep at the forefront. My favorite example of this last bit comes from some very sincere and friendly Hare Krishnas, who shared with me a pamphlet which warned among other things that if one is a glutton throughout his life, he will be "reincarnated as a feces-eating pig!!!" (complete with illustrations). Trust me, that was much more entertaining than "you'll burn in hell!!!"
So at a very basic and fairly abstract level, that's the core of my frustrations with religion. What's redeeming? Plenty. I can't help but be impressed with religious architecture even when I feel cynical about the value of that work and the tangible benefit that work could have brought people who needed it. Music, wow. Often. And it is that sense of wonderment that people have often ascribed to their deity that has led to so many works of brilliance and benefit to humanity, from the creation of Algebra to the European Renaissance to the Age of Reason.
And that's where the narrative shifts. Suddenly, we gain the insight into our condition (by way of the written word and the growing understanding of our planet and ability to affectively communicate that understanding) to gain a common sense of doing the right thing in life for no other reason than it's the right thing to do. Does this require any belief in a dogmatic moral code? No - rather it requires the understanding based upon personal and shared experience that life is generally better when more people try to do the right thing, wherever it happens. This shift of consciousness is very threatening to deeply entrenched religious orders and I believe that sense of desire to remain in power is the cause of many centuries of needless atrocity and the destruction of entire civilizations.
So that's really the crux of the thing: we can do just fine by learning as we grow up what is right and wrong (those of the Ten Commandments dealing with direct behavior toward other people are pretty right on where this is concerned) and then acting on that. Does that imply perfection? No, but then again, life really isn't perfect. People will still make bad choices just like people will still drop a glass in the sink while washing dishes, and in both cases will hopefully make an effort to learn how to avoid repeating the experience. But overall, the more people strive for this, the happier everyone is. If you're religious, your moral code almost certainly has a great deal of teachings to this very point, and often in language just as plain.
'Scuse me while I attend to this plank in my eye.
So anyhow, if you're religious, this is what I ask of you, one human to another. Do I deserve it? Eh, well, that's not really the point of asking and nothing I could say here would change your opinion of the answer anyhow. But it's a sincere request.
First off, don't assume that your religious faith is for any reason superior to any other clearly demonstrated set of ethical guidelines. Better to ask if that set of ethical guidelines results in more people enjoying true fulfillment, but even that can be a tough question to really get at. Just pay attention to the ethics of the person or group of people you're dealing with, and assume that for the most part, people are OK. The ones who really aren't will generally take an obvious turn eventually. Pay closer attention to other cars on the freeway. Seriously.
Next, pay attention to where your ideas come from. History has shown over and over again that if something is said often enough, a certain amount of the listening audience will eventually grow to believe what is being said, even in the face of clearly contradictory evidence, sometimes subconsciously. By paying attention to where your ideas come from as much as you pay attention to the content of those ideas, you will hopefully be better able to resist the manipulation of demagogues. Demagogues are bad, mmmkay?
Also, if your faith system is followed by a large majority of the people in your country, don't try to claim that you're being persecuted against for holding that set of religious beliefs. It's not even a coherent argument, and just alienates those who aren't in the country club. Do the right thing, you know?
Resist the temptation to think that someone who doesn't share your religious belief system is lacking anything in his or her life. Speaking personally, I find the world to be an inspirational and amazing place every day, and value the opportunity to be a part of this crazy cockeyed universe as much as anyone else does. Life is deeply fulfilling, despite those gaps we all have in our lives. Overall happiness fills those in nicely.
Finally, maintain your faith in humanity. We are as unique and amazing and different from everything else we truly know about as can be, and have managed to get this far with a fair measure of both warts and beauty spots, made possible by an absurd amount of sheer will. The whole of human history is a rich delight of stories and discovery, and we can do so much more in the future. If I have any one article of faith at all in life, this is it. Humanity will continue to iron over the bumps and figure out what to do, and along the way, we'll find much to experience, discuss, and teach one another. At the end of the day, that's better than any conceptualization of heaven or fortuitous reincarnation I've ever seen.
Comments, Pingbacks
Leave a comment
Allowed XHTML tags: <p, ul, ol, li, dl, dt, dd, address, blockquote, ins, del, span, bdo, br, em, strong, dfn, code, samp, kdb, var, cite, abbr, acronym, q, sub, sup, tt, i, b, big, small>
I’m glad you wrote this. This is a very important topic, one of the most (if not THE most) important one can engage in – either with others or with oneself. I respect you for being willing to let us know your perspective. Facebook blurbs of 128 characters or less are not really sufficient to get across what needs to be gotten across.
I’m sorry to see that no one has yet responded to this post, as it’s clear you put a lot of time and thought into it. And I, as always, have a lot to say.
I intend to say some things that go against what you state in your posting, but I hope to do so in a way that is respectful of your own experiences and views. I think it would be terrific if we could talk about this very critical topic as adults who think well of each other and are sincerely interested in understanding why each believes what they believe.
(I'm not certain how much space I am allowed here, so I will break this up into logical chunks for ease of reading.)
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 21:05
[Yes, comments are moderated. Yours will be approved before I even read them.]
I completely understand where you are coming from when you say you feel like an outsider in the church. Heck, I have been going to church most of my life (with the exception of that decade when I set it aside), and I feel like an outsider every time. The mainstream churches are too fusty for me. The evangelical churches too politically conservative. The politically liberal churches are too questionable in their theology. So why do I go? A couple reasons: 1. I believe that I can learn in any environment where God is. And also, that being open to views that are different than my own can only make me a stronger person, with a greater appreciation of the variety of life. 2. I need to be around other people who share my faith. It’s hard walking through life when you cannot talk to people about the single most important thing in your life. There are many, many non-Christians that I love, but I can never be 100% myself around them, because they have no interest in the one thing in life I am most interested in. (This is also why I cannot date non-Christians, and why I am pleasantly single and may be for the rest o f my life.)
I imagine you feel the same about believers – you’re speaking on a different wavelength. While it is good to talk to people who are so fundamentally different, it is easier to relax with people who share your views about the world.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 21:15
I cannot deny that this happens in religion. (For ease of discussion and truthfulness about what I know, I’m going to limit my comments to Christianity alone. While I have studied other religions, I am not a follower of any, and it is not my place to speak for other faiths.) And you know what? It drives me batty too. It’s particularly disturbing in Christianity, which is, at its core, NOT a system of dogmas, but a relationship with an individual (admittedly in three persons). Repeating the Nicene Creed does not make one a follower of Christ, although many individuals and churches seem to believe so.
And I completely agree that threatening people with eternal damnation is NOT the way to get them to fall madly in love with the leader of your faith. I was raised in a church like that and it did a lot of damage to me over the years. It was not until I spent more time getting to know Jesus personally, and less being told by OTHERS what he was like, that I recognized that his promise to creation was not the fires of hell, but the kingdom of God within them…right now, and for all eternity.
There is enough meat in this area that I could spend an entire post just on it, but for now, I will try to hit, at a basic level, your main points. We can always come back to these areas if you are interested in continuing this conversation.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 21:25
I’m not sure I follow the logic of this last statement. It seems to be saying that the mindset of the world is changing from doing what is right “because God says so” to doing what is right “because it’s a fundamental moral code built into all humans.” And that this makes people in the church do very bad things. Is that what you are getting at?
From my experience, this is not what makes people in the church do very bad things. I am not going to try to deny that the Church has committed evil acts in the name of God. It would be foolish and false. In my experience, what makes people in the church do bad things is much the same thing that causes people outside the church to do bad things – the same Seven Deadly Sins that we’ve heard about all our lives. It’s particularly galling to see these behaviors within the Church, because it sets itself up as God’s representative on earth. (Oh yeah, we know how badly we are seen from the outside.)
Here’s the thing, and St Augustine has a great discussion of this in City of God: the church is a place that welcomes all comers. It’s not intended to be an exclusive club. When people were getting thrown into coliseums to be devoured by lions, the members of the church had to be pretty damn sincere to want to stay involved. Ever since Constantine, however, being a church member has had not only spiritual benefits, but social and political ones as well. And only God knows for sure which persons are there because they are devoted to him and which go for entirely the wrong reasons. Sure, we can tell that some behaviors are more sinful than others, but we also have a very forgiving God who loves murderers and prostitutes, so it’s really hard to tell from the outside who might end up being a saint.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 21:41
Hmmm…how to explain this? Again, I can only speak for the religion I follow, and not for any other on earth. But Christianity, at least, is NOT simply a moral code. Or if it is, the code is, to quote Augustine: “Love God and do what you will.” Or, even better, to quote Jesus himself: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.” That’s pretty wide open. It’s a central tenet of my faith that there is NO WAY I will ever be good enough for God on my own. I will and do make mistakes, and some that are pretty terrible even in my own (self-preserving) eyes. How can people who do so much wrong be perfect enough to face the most holy God and not burn into ashes?
You can’t. So God just takes the morality piece right out of the equation. We are forgiven of all past, present, and potentially all future sins. Done. Gone. Like they never happened.
This does not mean that we are free to live profligate lifestyles, but that if we DO screw up, he will ALWAYS take us back (this is the moral of the Prodigal Son). Faced with such selfless love, we then seek to make him happy with us by doing our best to please him – much like you would do your best to please your girlfriend – not because she will leave you or abuse you if you do not, but because you WANT to make her happy. You look at all the good she does in your life, and you love her. And people in love seek each other’s good.
That’s as close to a moral code that Christianity in its purest form allows. “Love God and do what you will.“ Because a person truly in love will never do anything deliberately evil.
Do people practice it this way? Sadly, no. This kind of life is difficult in the extreme, because you DON’T get pre-set answers. You move forward step by step in life not by checking off some list of Approved Good Deeds, but by paying careful attention to the direction of God. This is hard work, and even a lifetime is not sufficient to master it.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 21:55
This is where things get a little dicey, and I don’t think you’re going to like my answer. I apologize in advance, but I cannot tell you what I believe to be an untruth.
You say not to assume that my religious faith is better than your non-faith. This is like trying to tell a blind person that, while they cannot see color, it’s not really any better than NOT seeing color. It’s the friendly, kind way to talk to people who cannot experience what you have experienced, but is seeing better than not seeing? I think that it is. I would never deliberately try to make a blind person feel like a failure because they could not see, but do I think their lives would be better with sight? Yes, I do.
Having spiritual faith DOES allow one entrance into a world that a person who does not have this kind of faith cannot enter. They can’t even acknowledge that this other world exists. Does this make them terrible human beings? No, of course not. But it does mean that we cannot talk on the same level, with the same perspective on life. I have experienced things that you have not experienced. Not because *I* am such a spectatular human being (a cursory glance will eliminate that possibility immediately), but because my God is a spectacular God.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 22:05
Agreed. Christians should be very careful to make sure that the words and actions of those who would presume to be leaders in the faith are in alignment with the words and actions of Jesus himself. It is the right thing to do to refuse to follow those who do not seek to follow Christ in their lives, especially when they seek political or social power via the Church, rather than the humility and selflessless (and poverty) called for by God.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 22:11
Also agreed. This bugs me about American Christians, who think that not having the president pray on the streets for the National Day of Prayer is equivalent to being imprisoned and tortured for their faith, as happens in many countries around the world. American Christians are soft and weak in their faith for the most part, because it really is so very easy to coast along. If the worst thing that happens is that someone yells at you for having a Jesus fish on your car, then you have it pretty sweet, my friend.
This may sound twisted, but I think some honest-to-goodness persecution would be terrific for the American Church. All the people who attend because they think following Christ is equivalent to a moral code would drop out of the church, and all that would be left are the sincere believers. And nothing spreads faith quicker than sincere believers willing to die for their faith. This is what happened in ancient Rome, and this is what toppled the Roman Empire: Christians dying by the thousands, praying for their enemies and singing hymns of praise to God. Such nonsensical behavior in the face of persecution makes people realize this is not a game, this is not something we do to impress other people. We believe in God because he is the very core of our being. This is the most real thing in the world--more real than our jobs, our families, our health, and even our lives themselves.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 22:20
"Finally, maintain your faith in humanity. We are as unique and amazing and different from everything else we truly know about as can be, and have managed to get this far with a fair measure of both warts and beauty spots, made possible by an absurd amount of sheer will. The whole of human history is a rich delight of stories and discovery, and we can do so much more in the future. If I have any one article of faith at all in life, this is it. Humanity will continue to iron over the bumps and figure out what to do, and along the way, we'll find much to experience, discuss, and teach one another. At the end of the day, that's better than any conceptualization of heaven or fortuitous reincarnation I've ever seen."
The Christian faith calls upon its followers to love everyone. And not in a “holier than thou” sort of way, but in a tangible, compassionate, and humble fashion. While we do believe in heaven, we also know that every person on this earth was created by God (in whatever sense you want to interpret that as), and is therefore unique, valuable, and precious in his eyes.
There is a great quote from Thomas Merton: “In Louisville, at the corner of Fourth and Walnut, in the center of the shopping district, I was suddenly overwhelmed with the realization that I loved all those people, that they were mine and I theirs, that we could not be alien to one another even though we were total strangers. It was like waking from a dream of separateness, of spurious self-isolation in a special world, the world of renunciation and supposed holiness. The whole illusion of a separate holy existence is a dream...There is no way of telling people that they are all walking around shining like the sun....
“I suddenly saw the secret beauty of their hearts, the depths of their hearts where neither sin nor desire nor self-knowledge can reach, the core of their reality, the person that each on is in God's eyes. If only they could all see themselves as they really are. If only we could see each other that way all of the time."
A relationship with God should make us love and appreciate others MORE, not less. We each have a soul that seeks infinite goodness, whether we know it or not. God knows it. And since he loves, we are called to love.
This same thing holds for the beauty of the world we live in. Yes, absolutely anyone, with faith or without it, can appreciate the beauty of a sunrise or the ocean or a child laughing. But sharing that moment with the divine adds something untangible and yet very real.
Another quote by Merton: “By reading the scriptures I am so renewed that all nature seems renewed around me and with me. The sky seems to be a pure, a cooler blue, the trees a deeper green. The whole world is charged with the glory of God and I feel fire and music under my feet.”
You may have seen this same kind of thing in the poetry of Gerard Manley Hopkins, if you read that when I posted it. A relationship God creates greater appreciation of nature, since every plant, every animal, every rock is imbued with the love and intention of God. It is there for a purpose and should be respected and valued, because God himself touched that plant or animal or rock and made it in some ways holy.
And now I am done. There is enough here for weeks of conversations, so I will leave it up to you on how you would like to progress. I want to repeat again how proud of you I am that you are willing to open yourself up to an honest discussion, and I pray that we continue to treat each other well, even when, especially when, we cannot see eye to eye.
Comment by Michelle H [Visitor] — 06/09/09 @ 22:38
History would tend to suggest that more people "dying for god" tends to perpetuate more of the same, while people "dying for good" tends to bring really (in historical terms) quick halt to the need for it to happen. By way of example, after Jesus died, the desired reforms did not take place, and what might at least have started off as a war of revolution became a very specific series of essentially ceaseless wars over concepts surrounding the divine that are still fought around the world today. By contrast, the massacre at Jallianwala Bagh was the end of the British Empire - the British (and colonialists in general) had lost what moral authority they still clung to and were forced to retreat, taking their manifold cruelties with them. Meanwhile, Mohandas K. Gandhi led his people to liberation on the premise of doing the right thing and not under the banner of a deity. This isn't to say Gandhi didn't have his own sense of faith, rather that the principles which he championed were not presented first and foremost as artifacts of his faith but were simply presented to be the right things to do. The greatest agony of Gandhi was to watch people of the country he sought to free fight and divide themselves under the banners of their own faith systems.
It's worth briefly noting that the people who died in the Jallianwala Bagh massacre were simply going to a festival and had no intention or notion that doing so would result in their murder. This is presented in contrast to the man who straps bombs around himself and walks into a crowded market to blow himself up. I don't even need to point out the important difference between the one and the other.
Anyhow, from my point of view, god doesn't have to be the reason to do the right thing. If that's what helps you get to that place, then that's great, but in the end, good is good. I'm sorry if this got all morbid, but I think this all hits a key point of what troubles me about religion and the willingness people under its sway gain some weird desire to die in the name of one's beliefs. One should never be willing to die for an idea, but should be prepared to do so with grace if it happens. If people respond to good as a primary impulse, then it won't happen at all.
Also, I really appreciate that you've taken the time to share this. It's a pretty clear insight into something I really have no comprehension of. Or maybe we're just using different languages to express the same set of ideas. That language is important.
Comment by me [Member] — 06/09/09 @ 22:50